tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post3645898568480914196..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: The Entrails of PrimatesTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-58976720689377041822007-12-13T12:27:00.000-05:002007-12-13T12:27:00.000-05:00Tobias,I think these are good and sober observatio...Tobias,<BR/><BR/>I think these are good and sober observations. And I agree with your follow-up comments. I still count myself among the "Rowanians" but do also wish he would take on the more Socratic role of raising challenges (of which I believe there are plenty to go around). He does seem to have done a bit of the in New Orleans.<BR/><BR/>But, I think you have identified the bind he is in. He is wary of the power and any exercise of it that would incline toward turning the ABC into a de facto Anglican pope. <BR/><BR/>I do find it ironic that many<BR/>"progressives" who not long ago were warning against creeping magisterium and papacy now often sound like they would like nothing more than il papa Rowan to settle things (as long as he settles them in their favor). "Conservatives" of course are demanding the same.<BR/><BR/>Still, I agree with you that the "Delphic" model seems not to be working.<BR/><BR/>MattMatt Gunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11230570081324464033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-25835539765795512132007-12-12T19:32:00.000-05:002007-12-12T19:32:00.000-05:00Entrails indeed. Thank you for a fine comment.Grac...Entrails indeed. Thank you for a fine comment.<BR/><BR/>Grace and peace in the name of the Lord.<BR/><BR/>The AOMThe AoMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06749710612109952072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-25664206274072220202007-12-12T13:32:00.000-05:002007-12-12T13:32:00.000-05:00Thanks, Tobias. I was thinking of what he will do ...Thanks, Tobias. I was thinking of what he will do as opposed to what he has done, I guess.<BR/>Now that you point out +Martyn(I can hardly bring myself to put that + in front of his name) and +Gene, I see that as a sort of tit for tat move. But beyond that I am inclined to agree with Mimi on his actions re the rest of it. <BR/><BR/>Obviously(or not), he does a lot of thinking out loud, which folks use as his 'pronouncement' on a subject, especially as it applies to GS and SC behavior when it suits. Saying something "could be" a way doesn't necessarily mean he gives his approval. But how are we to really know what he means?susan s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03679099677585214433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-7742991206564067542007-12-12T10:21:00.000-05:002007-12-12T10:21:00.000-05:00Actually Susan S., I think Rowan has put a few fol...Actually Susan S., I think Rowan has put a few folks in the penalty box: +Gene and +Martyn at least; and he has hinted that further Lambeth invitations might be withdrawn (the only real penalty at his disposal). His ultimate penalty, together with ++York, is excision from communion with the C of E. I think that an unlikely move; though they might conceivably declare such in reaction to an outright rejection of a Canterbury-based Anglicanism on any side. This does not seem unlikely, at present, from certain quarters...Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-17264964447758755532007-12-11T20:51:00.000-05:002007-12-11T20:51:00.000-05:00Thanks Tobias, but I have a couple of observations...Thanks Tobias, but I have a couple of observations...<BR/><BR/>"If he wants to remain on the sideline as an umpire rather than as the quarterback.", Tobias<BR/><BR/>"For Rowan, I think the appropriate metaphor would be: "If he wants to trail play as the referee rather than as the striker...", Ormonde<BR/><BR/>Perhaps this is a little juvenile, but I think that neither name applies...referees and umpires both hand out penalties. Can you see Rowan penalizing by moving the team 15 yards back from the line of scrimmage, or throwing someone(usually a disgruntled batter or even perhaps the team manager?<BR/>out of the game?<BR/><BR/>So far, not so.susan s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03679099677585214433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-73282188709576462612007-12-11T16:53:00.000-05:002007-12-11T16:53:00.000-05:00An interesting analysis. I am convinced he does n...An interesting analysis. I am convinced he does not want power, does not choose to lead. Unfortunately for him, he is going to have to make some more decisions soon. Dose Mr. Schofield still have a seat in Lambeth? What of ABp. Venables whose violence to the "Windsor process" is extreme. He alone can answer. <BR/><BR/>FWIW<BR/>jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-55372956682579601942007-12-11T16:39:00.000-05:002007-12-11T16:39:00.000-05:00If he wants to remain on the sideline as an umpire...<EM>If he wants to remain on the sideline as an umpire rather than as the quarterback</EM><BR/><BR/>For Rowan, I think the appropriate metaphor would be: "If he wants to trail play as the referee rather than as the striker..."Ormonde Platerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05145096672539029672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-90329930561240103402007-12-11T16:05:00.000-05:002007-12-11T16:05:00.000-05:00The ABC reveals all in an interview with Oi.The ABC reveals all in an interview with <A HREF="http://episcopalcafe.com/lead" REL="nofollow">Oi</A>.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287169546184325690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-34839153748740937182007-12-11T15:34:00.000-05:002007-12-11T15:34:00.000-05:00The problem usually seen with weak leadership, whe...The problem usually seen with weak leadership, whether actual or perceived, is that informal leadership will arise to take its place. There <I>will</I> be a leader, if not the ABC then someone else. I think you nailed it, Tobias. This is a good part of the reason all the garbage is going on at present.Lauralewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13899810561123775484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-76432878053735360382007-12-11T12:33:00.000-05:002007-12-11T12:33:00.000-05:00FR J-J,I think part of the problem is that he hone...FR J-J,<BR/>I think part of the problem is that he honestly doesn't think the ABC <I>should</I> have power, far less use it. I think he was embarrassed by the power play by Carey that helped get Lambeth 1.10 through, and he doesn't want to play that game. He favors disestablishment, remember. So it seems to me a big part of this is his ideological conviction that he should not tell people what to do -- that it is not his place to "forbid." So the chips keep falling where they will lie until someone sweeps them up...Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-39073308706811496902007-12-11T12:11:00.000-05:002007-12-11T12:11:00.000-05:00The Archbishop's problem, as I see it, has to do w...The Archbishop's problem, as I see it, has to do with his internal conflict between conscience/theology and pragmatics. +Rowan is very good on conscience/theology and bad on pragmatics, but he has chosen to go with the lame pragmatics, leaving the powerful conscience/theology out in the rain. <BR/><BR/>He chose to do the thing he is NOT good at and to by-pass the thing(s) he IS good at. He's like a one-legged man with a brilliant mind choosing marathon running over academics.<BR/><BR/>It is really pitiful to see the sheer waste of his splendid potential and the pitiful failure of his chosen inadequacy.<BR/><BR/>How could things be any worse if he were just to be true to himself and let the chips fall where they may?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-57100133744268496492007-12-11T11:50:00.000-05:002007-12-11T11:50:00.000-05:00Excellent. Thank you.Excellent. Thank you.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-63091297904957683102007-12-11T11:32:00.000-05:002007-12-11T11:32:00.000-05:00Patience Tobias, patience. The matter is still in...Patience Tobias, patience. The matter is still in its early stages of formation. Rowan may yet know what he is doing while keeping private counsel about it. Indirection is not always a bad strategy especially if you are waiting to hear what God might be about to say.Country Parsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02727241474360657192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-26999288639893165842007-12-11T11:24:00.000-05:002007-12-11T11:24:00.000-05:00It still leaves the question we he does he does no...It still leaves the question we he does he does not appear to have any trusted and competent advisors.<BR/><BR/>Erika BakerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-47713726193866590102007-12-11T10:06:00.000-05:002007-12-11T10:06:00.000-05:00This is a wonder, and marvelous to behold!Thank yo...This is a wonder, and marvelous to behold!<BR/><BR/>Thank you, Tobias; your writing (in word and music) has been refreshing and insightful, which I count upon. I must pay your place a visit.johniebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11635403219973766022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-78787732242007489382007-12-11T07:30:00.000-05:002007-12-11T07:30:00.000-05:00bravo! Stunningly good stuff. Thanks for the guts....bravo! Stunningly good stuff. Thanks for the guts.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-76160738391085281972007-12-11T00:15:00.000-05:002007-12-11T00:15:00.000-05:00Tobias, your post makes as much sense as any attem...Tobias, your post makes as much sense as any attempt I've seen to work out just what Abp. Rowan is up to. The thing is, he seems oblivious of the confusion that he leaves in his wake.<BR/><BR/>Once the umbrage has reached its limit and the departures have been made, what will his assessment of the condition of the Anglican Communion be? Or will he not give an assessment until after he leaves the chair of Canterbury? Perhaps, then he'll write a book examining the entrails.<BR/><BR/>His way of "leadership", whatever it is, seems so very wrong to me. Even his statement of non-endorsement of Bishop Venables welcome to the departing dioceses to the Southern Cone is so weak, that it leaves many of us wondering what he <B>really</B> means to say.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.com