tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post487767945898990892..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: Both Your HousesTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-63621231348509044102012-05-21T15:33:10.741-05:002012-05-21T15:33:10.741-05:00Bro David, I agree we are not completely clear on ...Bro David, I agree we are not completely clear on our theology of ministry and orders; but the point being raised was the practice, in some dioceses anyway, of making all deacons directly answerable to the bishop, apart from any parish connection. I certainly agree that both priests and deacons have a relationship with their bishop, but the deacons' is, in some places anyway, more "intense" if I can put it that way...<br /><br />Marshall, that's my understanding about the C of E. As to the swaying of deputies, I see the point, but I'm less anxious about it. And ultimately, in a free society, if people are swayed, they will be swayed -- and maybe that is part of the mix?<br /><br />Michael, that is a thought. Some of my colleagues love to act and think in "deputation" terms -- I tend to be much more a maverick. (No Palin jokes, please!) So I'd be all for it, including even the vote by orders and dioceses. Right now that requires proximity because everyone has to sign the form... but if we went to pure electronic voting it could be accomplished in a diffuse manner as you suggest.<br /><br />Another though would be to have all the bishops sit in a section all to themselves. "God bless and keep the Bishop... far away from us!"Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-70032265689022156372012-05-21T13:11:17.784-05:002012-05-21T13:11:17.784-05:00What about doing this and taking a page from the H...What about doing this and taking a page from the House of Bishops, and not have deputations sit togeter, but instead sit mixed across the floor. This would force us to talk with others one on one. It would also mean that one way or another a bishop could not "intimidate" members of his/her diocese.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05612918508246220033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-5690293772687907502012-05-20T21:27:37.075-05:002012-05-20T21:27:37.075-05:00The General Synod of the Church of England meets t...The General Synod of the Church of England meets this way, IIRC. In addition to the probable time savings, it would be consistent with our current practice of joint meetings of legislative committees.<br /><br />That said, I fear the concerns about bishops swaying their deputations (which may not always be inappropriate) would never go away. Indeed , I wonder whether it would divide deputations, if deputies in one order (and I really expect it would be lay deputies) were to be more in line with the bishop. And, again, that might not always be inappropriate.Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-19082939567112969912012-05-20T11:05:46.718-05:002012-05-20T11:05:46.718-05:00I think that until we recover a true theology of t...I think that until we recover a true theology of the episcopacy and with it a theology of deacons and priests, we will always have this kind of question asked. Deacons and priests have no different allegiance to their bishop, they serve in the bishop's ministry to the people of the diocese, only which ministry to the people is different.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-71396080515467064482012-05-19T17:13:10.572-05:002012-05-19T17:13:10.572-05:00Paul, I was using "order" here in the se...Paul, I was using "order" here in the sense that the Constitution and Canons use it, that is, Lay and Clerical order, as opposed to "order of ministry." But to address the peculiar relationship of deacons, I think deacons elected as deputies have thereby been given a particular responsibility to act as they see best, even it if means going contrary to their bishop. Some of the most important deacons in church history have stood up to bishops, after all; Francis of Assisi is just one example. An ironic part of holy obedience is that is sometimes involves helping superiors see the error of their ways.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-35424739086511671162012-05-19T17:02:35.933-05:002012-05-19T17:02:35.933-05:00As to "a majority vote in each order": ...As to "a majority vote <i>in each order</i>": Will we then <b>require</b> deacon deputies? And to what extent can deacons feel free to act contrary to a position taken by their bishop?Paul (A.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07543357437252555101noreply@blogger.com