tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post7545243597234129763..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: The web of possible relationshipsTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-69292259612069183732007-03-21T09:16:00.000-05:002007-03-21T09:16:00.000-05:00Thanks for this blog!Thanks for this blog!beyondimensionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12250626946108162677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-67127377795366471472007-03-20T20:22:00.000-05:002007-03-20T20:22:00.000-05:00At this point I need to declare that my ignorance ...At this point I need to declare that my ignorance of African christianity outweighs yours. (The Bible Church of Africa BTW is one of the larger non-pentecostal churches on the continent.)<BR/>But the whiteness of the churches you mention stood out. <BR/>While on the subject I have wondered often whether the AME churches and TEC have a relationship? <BR/>We need to define full communion, too. The old catholic churches have an agreement with the anglican communion I believe in a way that the Scandanavian churches and ELCA do not. So is communion with the Communion is different to communion with a province? Probaby not the most urgent issue though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-32752881430896322232007-03-20T16:46:00.000-05:002007-03-20T16:46:00.000-05:00Dear Obadiahslope,I mention these because I'm awar...Dear Obadiahslope,<BR/><BR/>I mention these because I'm aware of them. TEC is in full communion with ELCA, and the C of E is in full communion with the various Scandinavian and Baltic Lutheran Churches. There are also the Old Catholics. Then, of course, in India (N and S) there is already a good deal of wider fellowship via the United Churches there. As a matter of fact, bishops from the "wider fellowship" have been in attendance at Lambeth gatherings in the past, at least as honored guests or observers. Expanding this seems a good idea.<BR/><BR/>I'm not aware of the full communion relationships of the various other Churches of the Communion -- and I don't know even if this information is collated anywhere. Is the "Bible Church of Africa" in full communion with one of the Anglican Provinces there?Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-85713394212425896322007-03-20T16:37:00.000-05:002007-03-20T16:37:00.000-05:00I think you describe our emerging reality when you...I think you describe our emerging reality when you talk of the web of relationships. As you devop the thought the idea of inviting local partners to the Lambeth ball is an intriging possibility, but am am puzzled that you only mention the chiurch of Sweden and ELCA. Why not the Bible Church of Africa? Why only white, western churches?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-63952050083419414572007-03-19T03:10:00.000-05:002007-03-19T03:10:00.000-05:00The other side of this coin is that if the Anglica...The other side of this coin is that if the Anglican Communion moves towards a more monolithic structure it will have to review all existing ecumenical agreements according to its new tests of membership.<BR/><BR/>I have seen no hint that ecumenical partners were included in the Covenant process. The only reference in the Draft Covenant, I think, is in Section 4 (which reads like a mini-Covenant embedded in the larger one) - 'mission shared with other churches and traditions' - and this ignores the formal nature of many ecumenical relationships.<BR/><BR/>But perhaps the whole thing should not be regarded as a Covenant. It is more of an initial, tentative, cease-fire agreement: further talks are scheduled but no-one has yet laid down their weapons.Paul Bagshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17694279608748668806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-76926586518364149842007-03-18T15:55:00.000-05:002007-03-18T15:55:00.000-05:00Thank you G.M., you've got it spot on, as MadPries...Thank you G.M., you've got it spot on, as MadPriest would say. I'm always suspicious of rigid solutions to squiggily problems -- and the Anglican Communion is about as squiggily as Jell-O scuplture, cat choreography, or spaghetti macrame.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-76727313283989611742007-03-18T15:53:00.000-05:002007-03-18T15:53:00.000-05:00Oops. Well, math was never my strong suit! That sh...Oops. Well, math was <I>never</I> my strong suit! That should be "transitive" not "commutative" -- as Allen and Thomas Bushnell have pointed out.<BR/><BR/>I wonder, though if there are circumstances where communion might not even be commutative? For instance, I would welcome ++Akinola to my altar, though he might not come. As far as I'm concerned, we're still in communion with CoN -- but they don't feel the same way. Additional food for thought....Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-14375980326788886992007-03-18T13:43:00.000-05:002007-03-18T13:43:00.000-05:00Tobias, much food for thought here.You say: Would ...Tobias, much food for thought here.<BR/><BR/>You say: <I>Would this not be a better, and simpler, way forward than the rush towards a covenant from which it appears some wish to see others excluded -- for if the covenant is "weak" enough to allow all the present parties to remain, what is the point?</I><BR/><BR/>I say, what's the point of a covenant at all, strong or weak? What's wrong with the New Covenant given us by Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? What am I missing? Will sinful human beings come up with a better covenant than that given us by Our Lord?<BR/><BR/>As you say, a strong covenant will be divisive, and a weak covenant will be pointless.<BR/><BR/>Your idea to suspend the Lambeth gathering is excellent. We are in a time of war within the Communion, so let's take a rest or else make the gathering widely inclusive.<BR/><BR/>A strengthening of a top-down type of structure for the Communion is not something I want to see become a reality.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-9640514642199849592007-03-18T07:44:00.000-05:002007-03-18T07:44:00.000-05:00Tobias,Communion is indeed commutative (a is in co...Tobias,<BR/><BR/>Communion is indeed commutative (a is in communion with b implies b is in communion with a.) The property it lacks is transitivity. <BR/><BR/>That said, I for one think you have identified a promising way forward.Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04082981127553205332noreply@blogger.com