tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post7680696039576253563..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: Where We AreTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-39284366475308108502007-10-18T09:00:00.000-05:002007-10-18T09:00:00.000-05:00I gave up my ordination after 24 years of service ...I gave up my ordination after 24 years of service in the United Methodist Church. After a long struggle I could no longer live with integrity as a gay man who just keep it quite. I joined an <BR/>Episcopal Church that doesn't hit people over the head with inclusiveness, it just is inclusive of its gay/lebian members in all parts of the church. I worship every Sunday knowing that I am supported in my faith journey by this congregation.<BR/>I once told a staff member of my bishop that the average layperson is little effected by or cares about bishops and national church politics. Because of old habits, I have followed this debate in the Epicopal Church with way too much energy. The real work of the church is in the local parish and true change comes from the bottom up for the most part. I grieve that many in the Anglican Communion hurt people like me, in other countries as well as the United States, that is nothing new. I am thankful that I can live by baptismal vows in a parish that supports my faith and my integrity. I am glad to be an Epicopalian, with all of the issues before it, there are gay/lesbian pastors serving openingly and faithful which is not possible in the United Methodist Church. I pray for the day when all of this is just a memory and hope that I live long enough to see it happen. As a gay man I thank the Epicopal Church for giving me a true home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-21060472686780621592007-10-17T21:35:00.000-05:002007-10-17T21:35:00.000-05:00Thanks for this, Tobias.I've posted most of it ove...Thanks for this, Tobias.<BR/><BR/>I've posted most of it over at Jake's, as you have described very well the harsh reality that I have been tip toeing around for a few weeks now.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13579571802576738609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-90530070189230066452007-10-10T21:46:00.000-05:002007-10-10T21:46:00.000-05:00I really don't see why gay people are to be though...I really don't see why gay people are to be thought of as tender shoots, or babies, when it comes to the church and to reality.<BR/><BR/>Anybody who's grown up gay in this society can't <I>not</I> have grown a pretty thick skin. We all know what reality is in re this issue, and we all know there's a big argument going on about it. Why baby prospective members about the issue? Perhaps they'd be interested in being part of the conversation themselves. <BR/><BR/>I know I was - and I still am. There's more to life than arriving someplace by means of the previously-cleared path. Anyway, such a thing doesn't really exist; life is a struggle at all times.blshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627725321531151309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-340143384806014422007-10-01T21:19:00.000-05:002007-10-01T21:19:00.000-05:00Many fine comments. I have huge respect for those ...Many fine comments. I have huge respect for those who are the only out gay people in their parish (and thus bear the load of the "token", even to people of good will), and those who are in more gay-friendly, more open parishes, but are still frustrated at the people who Don't Get It. Those are both ministries - being the token, and being the stubborn one with higher sights.These ministries take a certain amount of strength, as compared with the safer alternative of Metropolitan Community Churches or independent gay-run churches. You do what you CAN do, and if your spiritual state is such that you need to avoid the distractions of The Same Old Harangue Yet Again, then leave for a friendlier clime or just take a vacation from church politics, which after all aren't God's politics. Burnout is no good for anyone.<BR/><BR/>Christopher has the vacation idea down - thanks for your very perceptive blogs and posts on other blogs. Other people in the Episcoblogosphere have taken vacations for a while, or have left for other churches. As for recommending TEC to gay newbies (non-cradle 'piskys), I'd give a whole range of options in different denominations and congregations. When it's time for them, it's time (God's time).<BR/><BR/>NancyPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-72758369133717544332007-09-30T22:35:00.000-05:002007-09-30T22:35:00.000-05:00I haven't checked thoroughly to see if anyone else...I haven't checked thoroughly to see if anyone else has noted this, but one other obvious difference between March and September, Elizabeth, is the absence of that shining light, Jim Kelsey. From all reports, he was the true leader/author of the March statement. There was no leader in September. Just lemmings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-33777890890068646002007-09-30T19:08:00.000-05:002007-09-30T19:08:00.000-05:00Where we are results from how we got here, which i...Where we are results from how we got here, which involves a resolute determination not to deal with the issues at hand on the part of most of the church.<BR/><BR/>The only major change the Episcopal Church has undertaken responsibly in the last 50 years or so was Prayer Book Revision. We took a long time, we let people respond, and we came up with a good product.<BR/>Everyone got to share in the pain which comes with change.<BR/><BR/>Women's ordination, on the other hand, was done rather quickly (from <BR/>a legislative point of view). It might not have seemed this way to some who were involved in moving he issue ahead. Women's ordination was ultimately more momentous than the change in liturgies, but it was passed by reinterpreting an existing canon. It's hard to imagine how we could have done trial versions of a sacrament which conveys an indelible grace, but the whole church somehow missed <BR/>sharing in the pain which comes with change on this matter.<BR/><BR/>From time out of mind GC's have been asking us to talk about human sexuality, and, from time out of mind, most of the church has said, "Let's do that later." As with any number of other things, the world has moved ahead of us and we're haivng to play an uncomfortable game of catch-up.<BR/><BR/>Gene Robinson's election (or the election of a "Gene Robinson")was inevitable. If he weren't so darned nice (say if he'd been as overbearing and autocratic as some of his hetero colleagues) he might well have not been approved. But we backed into the issue, largely unprepared. My experience is that the average suburban parish has probably spent as much time in church listening "to the experience of homosexual persons" as the average parish in Abuja. What may save us is that the average Episcopalian in the suburbs is having a different experience outside of church.<BR/><BR/>Our current neuralgia is, if nothing else, a judgment on our inactivity.The Patriarch of the Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322503494653925057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-67699355005810652212007-09-30T14:16:00.000-05:002007-09-30T14:16:00.000-05:00Having tried to discern where the church is, the n...Having tried to discern where the church is, the next step has to be a decision on where we are.<BR/><BR/>My small village parish has barely heard of the listening process. It has a mixture of very liberal and very conservative members, the general ethos is tolerantly inclusive and welcoming.<BR/><BR/>I am living openly with my same gender partner, bringing up my two children with her. Although there are other lesbian couples in our village, we are the only in our church. <BR/><BR/>We have had to "pay" for our openness and are no longer allowed to be Readers here. But we have also had astonishingly warm local support. Our continued presence is generating discussion which would otherwise not have happened. People are beginning to see the gay issue as something concerning real people they know and love, rather than just something being discussed in the papers.<BR/><BR/>I often feel like giving up and finding an easier life outside the church, but I know that what we do is important for us and important for the church. It's a passive ministry, often very painful. But if the church is to have any chance of becoming inclusive and more Christ-like, we and many more like us have to stay, however hard the rejections can be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-84814285631817040572007-09-30T13:42:00.000-05:002007-09-30T13:42:00.000-05:00I pray for a world where no one gains or loses vot...I pray for a world where no one gains or loses votes, stature or legitimacy based on their sexuality. It bothers me to suggest that Gene got some votes sole-ly because of his sexuality. I suspect that that is not true. If Gene was not well equiped for the task, he could do far more damage than good in this role.<BR/><BR/>I also think that the church IS more gay-positive than it has semed of late. We have been working to hold together that which probably cannot be held. I am suspicious that Lambeth, and its before and aftershocks will only further underline this split, and with no reason to struggle so much against the wind, our church will adopt a much more sensible heading. Getting rid of B033 would (in my opinion) be a good first step.Locust-Eaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10378049597393803141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-23032489768138887272007-09-29T21:07:00.000-05:002007-09-29T21:07:00.000-05:00Dear Tobias,Thanks for report on the clergy meetin...Dear Tobias,<BR/>Thanks for report on the clergy meeting. It sounds pretty much what I thought it would be.<BR/>I genuinely believe that hope and patience are both gifts of Spirit, and we WILL prevail. Our bishops have been a little slow to recognize this, but they're coming around. So we must continue to pray for and with them, and for each other.Michael Cudneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00306464899389029816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-70236133754174901572007-09-29T20:39:00.000-05:002007-09-29T20:39:00.000-05:00Fr. Haller, just FYI: anonymous' comment is spam;...Fr. Haller, just FYI: anonymous' comment is spam; s/he left exactly the same one on my blog, word for word.blshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627725321531151309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-32264244766983166852007-09-29T19:52:00.000-05:002007-09-29T19:52:00.000-05:00I found Tobias’ assessment of the recent actions o...I found Tobias’ assessment of the recent actions of the House of Bishops to be very sobering. I offer my own opinions of the House of Bishops.<BR/>• Being part of a liberal diocese with a female bishop who is very open and affirming of gay and lesbians, I assumed that the national church was more liberal than it actually is. Perhaps moderate would be a better description of TEC.<BR/>• The notion that gay and lesbians are full and equal members of the church is nothing more than a pretty sounding platitude spoken by well meaning individuals. It makes us all feel good about ourselves when we say this and we can pat ourselves on the back. However, for this to be a true reality of the church there would need to be significant change of heart and mind among many lay and clergy. I have been in a same-sex c0mmitted relationship for seven years now and my rector will not allow a blessing of my relationship in his church. Not only that, but I am convinced that this same rector has dismissed me out of hand when I came to him and expressed my calling to Holy Orders. Full and equal member of the church? Not in my experience. <BR/>• It has been suggested that a listening process take place amongst individuals who have differing beliefs and opinions about sexuality. Again, this is another element of polite liberalism. If we listen to one another, then perhaps we can find common ground and thus find a way to live with one another. In theory this is a wonderful idea, but practically speaking it is a waste of time. Recently, Archbishop Peter Akinola was asked about discussing the issues surrounding homosexuality. His response was why would I want to discuss murder? Akinola and others like him (Duncan, Iker, etc.) are convinced that they possess the TRUTH. To accept or compromise anything contrary to their understanding of the TRUTH would be to deny the TRUTH. They are fundamentalist with an insatiable desire for purity and they will not allow fags to be part of their church because doing so would taint this purity. They don’t want to listen to this issue because to do so would be to compromise their salvation. <BR/><BR/>Katharine Grieb addressed the HOB on March 19, 2007 on the Proposed Anglican Covenant and I leave you with her final comments which I believe speak to the current state of TEC. <BR/><BR/>"…I think we are in the place of all potential disciples of Jesus when some Pharisees come to warn him about Herod. He will go his way today, and the next day, and the day after that, healing and teaching and casting out demons, but eventually he will end up in Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who lose their lives for now on the way to Jerusalem, when things are hard and scary and it feels like death is all around, then we shouldn't be surprised later when the Son of Man says he doesn't want to be seen with us. <BR/><BR/>Where is that mysterious Son of Man hidden today? What is the cross that we are to take up? This message is especially directed to those of us who are called to ''stand with'' a rejected category of persons. Dietrich Bonhoeffer recognized the hidden Son of Man in the persecuted Jews. Abraham Heschel, who marched with Martin Luther King, Jr., had eyes to see the Son of Man hidden in the rejected separate and unequal ones. Perhaps Mahatma Gandhi caught a glimpse of him in the Dalit, the ''untouchables'' of India. Since we shall have to answer for these things we do on the day of judgment, it may not hurt to ask ourselves ahead of time the question Jesus asks us: What good will it do any of us, even if we gain the whole world, if we forfeit our soul, our life, our self?"Jason B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18386446374450337518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-89026113234061311192007-09-29T19:00:00.000-05:002007-09-29T19:00:00.000-05:00Tobias, thank you for providing a place where we c...Tobias, thank you for providing a place where we can have a conversation about this and we can "frankly" about our feelings.<BR/><BR/>For myself, in spite of all setbacks or stalls or anything else the world (or the church for that matter!) throws our way, I believe that full GLBT inclusion in the life of the Body of Christ <B>is</B> a reality .. just one that a good part of the Body hasn't woken up to as of yet. <BR/><BR/>I would think that the real road to full inclusion doesn't originate from resolutions at GC or "words to the church" from our House of Bishops...it cannot be mandated, only lived out. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps I am being naive or overly optimistic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-45495790069409847072007-09-29T17:14:00.000-05:002007-09-29T17:14:00.000-05:00Dear Brian,Your faith in the God who made you and ...Dear Brian,<BR/>Your faith in the God who made you and loves you is spot on. You are loved on earth as well.<BR/>Greetings across the years and miles, Jamie!Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06090720645937634051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-48214611203315226292007-09-29T13:56:00.000-05:002007-09-29T13:56:00.000-05:00John 2007 saysAs long as we are dealing with perce...John 2007 says<BR/><BR/>As long as we are dealing with percentages let's not forget that VGR barely passed in the HOB. Had 6 bishops (or therabouts) voted differently he would not have passed.<BR/><BR/>I think you are honest and trying to be honest by saying the VGR was elected in spite of his private life. But I think some people did elect him to advance The Cause, some voted to give NH their right to choose, and I think some may have voted b/c they have a hard time saying 'No.' For my money, the right thing to do would have been to get The Cause voted on first: Are we willing to consecrate same sex partnered bishops, and to ordain priests for that matter? And are we willing to authorize SSB's? We should have addressed those two issues first as a Church and not, in essence, tried to repeat (and link) the strategy for Women's Ordination-- 'Just do it, and deal with the consequences later!'--in the absence of a true consensus on the material issues.<BR/><BR/>But, then, I think we're a mess as a denomination, despite some fine people, and fine parishes, and lots of good work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-54009225589025140902007-09-29T13:13:00.000-05:002007-09-29T13:13:00.000-05:00Christopher,One reality of pastoral care is that i...Christopher,<BR/>One reality of pastoral care is that it is not limited to clergy (and certainly bishops are not primarily personal pastors to individuals, but pastors to the whole flock).<BR/><BR/>But as I've noted before, priests are ordained to bless. They do not need a special license from the bishop to do so -- it's part of the package, just like the faculty of preaching or laying on hands for healing. So while there may be only a few dioceses that have "authorized" (by any definition) the blessing of same-sex couples, I believe it to be perfectly within the rights of a parish priest to bless a couple who have exchanged vows -- in whatever context -- as "the church teaches" it is not the church that makes the union but the couple -- and the church is simply blessing. As I've noted in the past, the liturgy for the blessing of a home is already an authorized liturgy, and it includes as an option the blessing of the couple. (As I've also noted, this is the earliest form of the marriage liturgy in Christendom.)<BR/><BR/>It is also within a priest's power to bless people on their anniversaries, or other significant events. I have officiated at the main Sunday service at the liturgy of thanksgiving for the adoption of a child by a gay couple -- in a church that is NOT predominantly gay in its membership (in fact it's mostly West Indian, Nigerian, and Ghanaian!). <BR/><BR/>I don't want to focus on the clergy too much (though I think this to be very important) and acknowledge the tragedy that probably most gay and lesbian folk will never enter a church in their lifetimes. That is probably the greatest tragedy of all. All I can say is this shifts the responsibility to the gay and lesbian laity to do the work of evangelism just as strait folks do -- to encourage people to go to the parishes that are "safe"; to hold clergy to account and help get those still in the closet out; and to continue to lobby their bishops and work for change.<BR/><BR/>Howard Galley, who penned the words of that eucharistic prayer I mentioned above, was a layman. He was also a superb scholar of liturgy and a devoted member of his parish. God bless all people who continue to fight, those who weary of the fight move on or take their rest, those who don't even know there is a place of hope, and those who have given up on hope.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-19534504574528214722007-09-29T10:37:00.000-05:002007-09-29T10:37:00.000-05:00But is there the nurture for us to remain while he...But is there the nurture for us to remain while heterosexism is passing away, which I very likely doubt it will in my lifetime? From what I've seen, the answer to my question is "no". <BR/><BR/>We talk and talk about pastoring all kinds, and that's true. But the other kinds can have their relationships acknowledged, given thanks for, celebrated at anniversaries; have their households understood as places of discipleship, and their children are not barred from anything (I've known instances where parishes would deny baptism) and never have to slink around in hush and hush manner always testing the waters and air to see if there full of poisons or not.<BR/><BR/>I'm tired of the clergy focus on this topic. As a layman, it seems that's all we care about. It is at the level of the pew perhaps even moreso than at the ordination level that it seems to me we're don't ask, don't tell with regard to anything concrete. Our bishops may have wanted to minister to us, but the only ones receiving concrete care are everyone else with regard to the important things in our lives. I'm tired of it. <BR/><BR/>My partner just yesterday asked me to comb our shelves and the Net for resources on same-sex union rites. His Lutheran parish is preparing a rite for use in his parish. My own Episcopal parish, 80% lg, doesn't even have that sort of thing in any official way or way that makes clear this is a possibility.Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10400109177404296836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-77462313026768023862007-09-29T09:06:00.000-05:002007-09-29T09:06:00.000-05:00Dear Brian,I never meant to suggest that anyone wh...Dear Brian,<BR/>I never meant to suggest that anyone who doesn't join TEC, or who chooses, as you are choosing, to leave it, in any way lacks faith. Thanks be to God, I've never believed the Episcopal Church to be coterminous with the Kingdom of God, and there are many faithful people outside it. I am sorry to see you leave, but I can well understand the impetus to do so.<BR/><BR/>RH, I think the problem is that TEC has lived a "double life" for so long that we've forgotten the inherent duplicity. There have been public comments about gays in the church, including as priests and bishops, since at least the 19th century; and many fairly open acknowledgments of this fact in the popular culture. I can recall an issue of National Lampoon from about 1969-70 that had an article about gay teens, suggesting a teen troubled in his conscience might speak to his pastor, "especially if he's an Episcopalian"!!<BR/><BR/>The major problem, as I see it, is that as we've begun to take off the masks, we run into the spirit of denial and dismay. The movement from don't ask/don't tell is a time when the reality being acknowledged challenges the myth that some would like to continue.<BR/><BR/>There are only two reasons I can encourage glbt people to come to the church: first, I think we are in the closing phase of the struggle, and they can be a part of it. I believe we are seeing in or time the last sputtering, nasty gasps of heterosexism. Secondly, I hope people would come to the church not simply for what they can get out of it, but for what they can give it; and for the much more that the church can be besides a place of refuge -- not to come "for solace only, and not for strength..." Words from our BCP written by a gay man, who lived in hope, and found a home.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-25245661426742510932007-09-29T08:34:00.000-05:002007-09-29T08:34:00.000-05:00I'm not sure if people have read this, but there i...I'm not sure if people have read this, but there is an excellent blog post here: http://ceciliainthecloset.blogspot.com/2007/09/living-lie.html<BR/><BR/>Cecilia gives some advice we should strongly consider. I assume that she's not Episcopalian ("pastor" gives her away), but I find her advice applicable.Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17851789276439393822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-92172792437935243232007-09-28T21:58:00.000-05:002007-09-28T21:58:00.000-05:00One more response...While I don't doubt the accura...One more response...<BR/><BR/>While I don't doubt the accuracy of your bullet point descriptors, I also have to confess that the church they describe is foreign to me. More importantly, they describe a church I would never have signed on to as a communicant much less as a cleric.<BR/><BR/>In 23 years I've served (as lay and ordained) in six different dioceses and, with only one exception, we've blessed same sex unions with little attention or rancor about it. We've had openly gay clergy and sometimes selected GenCon delegates specifically to "fight the good fight" at the national level. I'm not suggesting those places were monolithic but the bent toward full inclusion was always undeniably dominant. I'd even call it "normative". I would not have chosen to participate if that had not been the case.<BR/><BR/>If what you say is true (and I think it may well be if speaking about the breadth of TEC) then I do wonder how, with any integrity, we can encourage any LGBT folk to join us.<BR/><BR/>I've already heard from enough of my own LGBT parishioners and friends who ask, 'Do we ignore all this and continue our work or do we acknowledge it and leave?'<BR/><BR/>Is there a healthy place somehwere between those two responses?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-57439754094432133002007-09-28T21:40:00.000-05:002007-09-28T21:40:00.000-05:00Tobias: I have waited in hope (and obviously naive...Tobias: I have waited in hope (and obviously naivete) for 40 years for the Episcopal Church to stop saying "nice things" to try and keep Gayfolk in the church and affirm by deed Gayfolk, ontologically and morally and ecclesially. I see now it will never happen. I am making plans to depart. But I have one thing to "correct" in what you said in your "clear" comments. I am not leaving because I don't have faith, but because I do - faith in a beautiful, loving God who made me a fine Gay man in the Divine Image, WHo seems is not worshipped apparently by the heirarchy of the Episcopal Church.<BR/><BR/>Brian McHugh, priestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-27502966384145254982007-09-28T20:55:00.000-05:002007-09-28T20:55:00.000-05:00Thanks to all for the feedback and wisdom. I echo ...Thanks to all for the feedback and wisdom. I echo the wish that people could hold fast and remain faithful to each other and to the church even as they disagree passionately. My seminarian delivered a fine sermon last week at GTS (his senior sermon) in which he imagined how hard it must have been for Simon the Zealot to sit at the same table as Matthew (Levi) the Tax Gatherer. And Jesus didn't take sides -- he just called them together.<BR/><BR/>Jennifer, I'm referring to the fact that the clause in question was added to the resolution as an amendment -- and when voted on by itself fully 1/3 of those present voted against it. After it was adopted, a number of the more liberal bishops walked out in despair. Not, I think a wise thing to do, but I can understand their feeling. The final resolution was adopted as you say, many who voted against the individual clause feeling some comfort in the presence of the section about listening and pastoral care. Many of them have now been disappointed at the failure to live up to that portion of the resolution.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again to all.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-75017590353783810532007-09-28T20:37:00.000-05:002007-09-28T20:37:00.000-05:00Thank you, Tobias. This is the most honest assessm...Thank you, Tobias. This is the most honest assessment I have read of where we are today. There is never any substitute for dealing frankly with reality. I would only add that many of the radical right will be remaining, and I do not expect them to be silent.<BR/><BR/>I do wish we could agree to disagree on these issues. Putting aside personal beliefs for a moment, I cannot imagine that it is yet possible for this church to thrive in some areas of the country while speaking of same sex blessings. In other parts of the country, it is not possible for the church to thrive without doing so. This church is polarized because this country is polarized, and in that sense we really do reflect the surrounding culture. It ought to be possible to use those differences to good advantage so that we can minister to both parts of that culture.<BR/><BR/>Persuasion is good, but it is not sufficient. We must also arrive at the point where we can live with our differences. Those differences will be with us for a while yet.<BR/><BR/>Paul MartinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-5593393050299396502007-09-28T20:25:00.000-05:002007-09-28T20:25:00.000-05:00I don't understand the part about fully one third ...I don't understand the part about fully one third of 1998 Lambeth bishops voting against the clause that says homosexuality is incompatible with Scripture. The vote on the final resolution was 526 to 70 and it includes words to the same effect. What are you referring to? JenniferAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-42184984817505905222007-09-28T17:04:00.000-05:002007-09-28T17:04:00.000-05:00Tobias, I agree that you present the rather glum r...Tobias, I agree that you present the rather glum reality of the state of the church today.<BR/><BR/>SSBs take priority among many church members, because, after all, how many of us will be candidates for bishop?<BR/><BR/>Keep in mind that in certain dioceses, ordination to the priesthood or to the diaconate is still not a possibility for GLTB persons in partnered relationships.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the picture at the bottom. It did make me laugh, although the sentiments are not really funny.<BR/><BR/>Note to all: I am the token low-brow commenter here. How do I dare to do it?June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-9964681926890061092007-09-28T16:52:00.000-05:002007-09-28T16:52:00.000-05:00I will not claim to understand how a gay or lesbia...I will not claim to understand how a gay or lesbian Episcopalian feels this week. But I do have my own experience of alienation from the Church - a feeling and a sense that my Church had rejected me and cast me aside.<BR/><BR/>In 1991, I relinquished the exercise of my priestly ministry. The details of the story behind that are complicated, and I hold no small culpability myself. But at the time (in the words of friends for I claim no perspective) I was dealt with as a discipline problem and not a pastoral problem. <BR/><BR/>For a few years I did I hardly darkened a church door at all. Then (after a change in bishop) for several years, I became much like those we see at Christmas and Easter - the occasional Anglicans.<BR/><BR/>I knew my priestly vocation was still real, but I was alone. And while I knew where my spiritual home was, I could not go there.<BR/><BR/>It was a coffee with a (different) former bishop that opened the door for my return home, and the support of a good parish priest that made me comfortable to stay.<BR/><BR/>And then, some further years down the line, the week before his retirement, the then bishop contacted me to say he wanted to reinstate me before he retired.<BR/><BR/>Now, I am home and my vocation is restored.<BR/><BR/>My experience is not the same as my gay brothers and lesbian sisters this week. In particular, my own culpability makes the two quite different.<BR/><BR/>But this Church is my home. And I hope it is their home too. And I pray that they will not feel the need to leave it in order to miss it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com