tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post7838577101285645151..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: EpiscopalectionsTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-6732800492457042602009-12-14T02:48:37.777-05:002009-12-14T02:48:37.777-05:00I now fully understand the emotions of the Colonis...<i>I now fully understand the emotions of the Colonists when they finally concluded that enough was enough where British rule was concerned. I write as an expatriate Brit, baptized and confirmed in the Church of England.</i><br /><br />Oh, some of the <i>fiercest</i> (US of) American patriots from the War of Independence WERE, Lapin. You're very welcome among us! :-)<br /><br />...and speaking of which: if things continue the way they're going, may I suggest that at GC 2012, under TEC's standard, we fly the "Don't Tread on Me!" <b>Rattlesnake Flag</b>? It's time Rowan learned it's not only "Global South" hierarchs (much less, the Pope) he has to fear! >;-DJCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-79495670221213329792009-12-09T01:30:42.686-05:002009-12-09T01:30:42.686-05:00When I think of the gulf which separates Uganda fr...When I think of the gulf which separates Uganda from TEC, there seems to be only two possible solutions: either we learn to live with our differences, or we go our separate ways. ++Williams' solution, a uniformity of practice enforced by a new centralized authority, is the "solution" least likely to work. It would be hard to come up with a less appropriate response. It works for Rome (to the extent that it does) only because Rome has no self governing provinces. If you wanted to impose the same thing on the Anglican Communion, you would have to get rid of all of those pesky provincial councils first. I hope that isn't what ++Williams has in mind.Paul Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-85030580493511071252009-12-07T18:21:15.484-05:002009-12-07T18:21:15.484-05:00Tobias, an absolutely eloquent statement as only y...Tobias, an absolutely eloquent statement as only you can make it. You certainly have a way with words!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-40159193488141472462009-12-07T17:35:37.078-05:002009-12-07T17:35:37.078-05:00Regarding Rowan and his low performance as Archbis...Regarding Rowan and his low performance as Archbishop of Canterbury, I had a flash today. My flash may seem to be "all about me", but bear with me.<br /><br />I am not a leader, and I expect that I'm not teachable, either. No number of training classes in leadership would make me a good leader of others. Give me a one-person task to do, and I will be faithful and do the work, but I will not score high on "works well with others".<br /><br />Which leads me (heh, heh) to think that part of the picture in the difficulties that Rowan finds himself in is that he is not, by his nature, a leader, and is perhaps another of the unteachables.<br /><br />I'm quoting myself above from the comments to another blog, where the flash came to me. Of course, I could be wrong.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-50173626692495727052009-12-07T12:53:42.700-05:002009-12-07T12:53:42.700-05:00Wonderful story, Tobias. I agree about Yes M. and...Wonderful story, Tobias. I agree about Yes M. and House of Cards, essential to understand the politics of the UK. Having lived in the UK for 4 years right around the Fall of Thatcher, I can attest that those small screen versions really capture the political play!IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-84134454667878138382009-12-07T12:17:09.277-05:002009-12-07T12:17:09.277-05:00Bradley,
I think you are spot on. Rowan has been s...Bradley,<br />I think you are spot on. Rowan has been smitten with the romance of reunion with Rome. Like much romance, it is fiction, but he still has this starry-eyed fascination with that fantasy of unity and clarity. He is still smarting from a comment made by one of the hierarchs, to the effect that "We don't know who we're talking to..." when it comes to dialogue with a poorly formed (in their eyes) "Anglican Church." Rowan lacks the courage to say, "Yes, that is a difficulty, isn't it. But it is characteristic of Anglicanism to embrace a wide range of teaching on any number of topics. So perhaps we ought to call off any communion-wide Anglican / RC dialogue and let it happen on a province by province basis." That would be a rational statement of how things are. But of course, in the effort to please Rome, Rowan wants to concoct a scheme to make Anglicanism more Rome-like, via a Covenant.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-34604937986910739662009-12-07T11:55:50.334-05:002009-12-07T11:55:50.334-05:00My take on --Rowry is that he has become an extrem...My take on --Rowry is that he has become an extreme co-dependent towards Rome. I think his deep personal desire is to see unification with such and anything that gets in it way is subject to his scolding. And if there ever was a religion that has it's priorities misplaced, Rome is a prime example.<br /><br />I think what we see here is power corrupting a very insecure person.<br /><br />Bradley Upham aka "choirboyfromhell"Bradleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00878086886816560424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-60591831606388261552009-12-07T10:56:37.657-05:002009-12-07T10:56:37.657-05:00I now fully understand the emotions of the Colonis...I now fully understand the emotions of the Colonists when they finally concluded that enough was enough where British rule was concerned. I write as an expatriate Brit, baptized and confirmed in the Church of England.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-87492779809694686622009-12-07T10:52:19.621-05:002009-12-07T10:52:19.621-05:00Thanks Susan, Mimi and IT. Yes, that was a conscio...Thanks Susan, Mimi and IT. Yes, that was a conscious reference to the delightful Ian Richardson in the role of the delightfully wicked "F.U."<br /><br />As to the timeline for normalization, I think a generation is too far out, and a decade perhaps too short. But who, after all, would have thought 20 years ago that same-sex marriage would be legal anywhere in the U.S. Of course, having a fair number of out gay or lesbian Episcopal bishops some time down the road assumes the continued existence of the Episcopal Church; and I would suggest it is a directly proportional arrangement; that is, the more honest we are about the values of loving relationships, in keeping with the teaching of Christ, the better off the church will be. Otherwise we face, I think, irrelevance to the world, and a continued life only as an inward-gazing and dysfunctional sect, stewing in its own poisonous juice. (If you want a preview of what that looks like, I think you know the blogs and urls to visit!)<br /><br />IT, I had the great pleasure of meeting Sir Ian early in my theater career, when I had a small role in a production of Twelfth Night at the Princeton McCarter Theater. Sir Ian was doing a lecture at the university, and attended the performance, a dapper tall gentleman in a velvet jacket. I was in the role of Feste's accompanist, playing an odd assortment of instruments, and doing a "turn" as the Priest who appears late in the play to deliver a single short speech -- one of those delightful small roles that British actors love; and under the director's adept hand it always managed to get me a round of exit applause. Sir Ian was most gracious and generous with his time, as he made an effort to chat with all of the cast at a reception following the performance. <br /><br />The House of Cards miniseries is a masterpiece -- and I commend it to any who may not have seen it. It and the Yes [Prime] Minister episodes are crucial if one is to understand the workings of the English state and church.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-73560520152441679802009-12-07T02:39:27.103-05:002009-12-07T02:39:27.103-05:00Oh, thanks, Susan S, now I have the sublime Ian Ri...Oh, thanks, Susan S, now I have the sublime Ian Richardson's voice with those words in my mind's ear...<br /><br />We'll see, won't we?IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-59956850080036684582009-12-07T00:54:31.658-05:002009-12-07T00:54:31.658-05:00...until some day the out bishops will be just as ...<i>...until some day the out bishops will be just as much the norm as the closeted ones are now.</i><br /><br />What a day of rejoicing that will be! I hope that we don't have to wait until we all get to heaven.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-49843230428894613882009-12-06T21:51:58.830-05:002009-12-06T21:51:58.830-05:00Thanks, Tobias. Did I notice a slightly changed li...Thanks, Tobias. Did I notice a slightly changed line from 'House of Cards" spoken by Francis Urquhart? "You may think so my dear, but I couldn't possibly comment." I could but laugh. . .susan s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03679099677585214433noreply@blogger.com