tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post8444783218236969421..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: A Note on John 4Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-53751231072455638412012-01-24T10:13:54.630-05:002012-01-24T10:13:54.630-05:00Thanks Jesse, for pointing me back to him of Hippo...Thanks Jesse, for pointing me back to him of Hippo. Interesting that he arrives at that reading via an allegorical course, though it seems to me the "<i>ad litteram</i>" also works. <br /><br />As to the woman's amazement, I'd put that down to the knowledge of the past five husbands ("He told me everything I did" --i.e., a reference to her past) rather than the present or future in which she gives her adherence to Christ.<br /><br />In a sermon a few years back I also played with the notion that she leaves her water bucket behind because she has become herself the receptacle of the good news delivered to her people -- bearing the "living water" back to them. So perhaps I am living somewhere between the literal and allegorical myself!<br /><br />Thanks again, and also for word of the reprint of the <i>Catena</i>.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-78799516502165704362012-01-23T23:04:50.268-05:002012-01-23T23:04:50.268-05:00Very interesting indeed! I confess, I have never ...Very interesting indeed! I confess, I have never paid sufficient attention to this passage. It would seem that at the merely narrative level the woman herself thinks this really is about her and her various marriages ("Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did.")<br /><br />But in the commentary on this passage in the <i>Catena aurea</i>, one of Aquinas's authorities gives a nod in your direction, Tobias. Augustine first asks whether the woman needs her husband so that he can explain the teaching to her (cf. 1 Cor. 14:35): "But this applies only where Jesus is not present. Our Lord Himself was present here; what need then that he should speak through her husband?" So he senses that Christ's <i>presence</i> is important here, and that it obviates the need for a different "husband".<br /><br />And then he goes on to refer to how "some" interpret the five husbands to mean the five books of Moses: "And the words, <i>He whom thou now hast is not thy husband</i>, they understand as spoken by our Lord of Himself; as if He said, Thou hast served the five books of Moses, as five husbands; but now <i>he whom thou hast</i>, i.e. whom thou hearest, <i>is not thy husband</i>; for thou dost not yet believe in him." That makes the sixth man, who is "not her man", to be Christ, exactly as you suggest here.<br /><br />It is an interpretation Augustine rejects in the end, because he can't see how embracing Christ can entail a rupture from the five books of Moses, which the Christian continues to embrace according to their "spiritual meaning". (He goes on to favour the "five senses" interpretation to which you have referred.) But take away the equation of the five husbands with the five books, and the reading stands up rather well!<br /><br />[NB: I've quoted from the Tractarian translation of the <i>Catena</i> originally produced under the supervision of J. H. Newman, and now beautifully reprinted in 4 vols. by Baronius Press.]Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17809446580681184264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-10817332099365586122012-01-23T17:17:52.480-05:002012-01-23T17:17:52.480-05:00Thanks Castanea and RE! Glad it is helpful.Thanks Castanea and RE! Glad it is helpful.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-2814622197736749752012-01-23T15:27:31.172-05:002012-01-23T15:27:31.172-05:00A wonderful and illuminating interpretation!A wonderful and illuminating interpretation!Br Richard Edward Helmer BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04603206783767329399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-83841929940674131032012-01-22T14:53:43.657-05:002012-01-22T14:53:43.657-05:00Thank you for this. I have always found those few ...Thank you for this. I have always found those few verses exceedingly strange, especially in John where every word is of import. Why did Jesus bring this up?<br /><br />Yours is the first answer I've encountered that makes sense of this.Castanea_dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13041129689248653381noreply@blogger.com