tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post8445783565902459522..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: Truthful with the EconomyTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-13613912494244119812012-10-05T01:53:19.875-05:002012-10-05T01:53:19.875-05:00The way to encourage people off welfare is to make...The way to encourage people off welfare is to make sure that, while welfare pays enough for them not to be destiute, work still provides better financial returns. <br /><br />This is not a new idea and it works well in many European countries.<br /><br />Government figures suggest that welfare fraud accounts for 0.5% of welfare payments in Britain. Although it is true that people who object to helping others will make heavy weather of the high profile fraud cases.<br /><br />A dispassionate analysis of the data from Europe would show that a. it's not all Greece, and that b. Greece did not find itself in its mess because of welfare fraud but because of a whole host of complex circumstances.<br /><br />Look at Germany, Switzerland, France and many many others to get a more accurate picture of how you can create a more just society that still generates wealth.<br /><br /><br />Erika Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812376497361267014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-15977230986643481462012-10-01T08:26:46.936-05:002012-10-01T08:26:46.936-05:00Kurt, I've not read it, but it sounds interest...Kurt, I've not read it, but it sounds interesting. Thanks for that.<br /><br />Musculars, that is an intriguing notion. Ultimately I think usury is at the root of the problem, and we're in so deep it will be hard to constrain.<br /><br />Chris H., the abuses you cite are very real, but I think a program of "workfare" and engagement in public projects such as the New Deal programs would work well. Education is key in getting people prepared for work in newly emerging areas -- and this is also an appropriate role for the government to undertake, at least as coordinator. If the gov't also holds the pursestrings, it can place demands on those receiving money. And again, the electorate then has a say in how this is structured. I take your example of Greece to heart, but there are equally egregious failures of capitalism. No "system" is perfect -- because people are imperfect; but some systems have better checks and balances. Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-54682563950982905332012-09-30T21:50:16.025-05:002012-09-30T21:50:16.025-05:00I'm not sure that private charity would create...I'm not sure that private charity would create a bigger "culture of dependency" than we've already got. The standard of living between lower class workers and those on the dole often leans toward better standards for those on welfare than for the workers. From the point of view of someone who works at Walmart and is surrounded by those two groups, the "dependent/entitled" group is much larger than many think.<br /><br />Does your "limited" socialism include limits/requirements of government aid? How do you break the culture of dependence, or do you even try? What if we required those who get welfare to do volunteer work, or prove that they were trying to break the cycle. Of course, there are ways around that, too. Even some family members have waited until the unemployment insurance was about to run out before really trying for a job, not to mention acquaintances who claim work comp/disability and then go work for money/goods under the table. When are too many people on the take? 40% of the population? 50%? Having been chewed out before for wanting to cut down on fraud in these areas, I'm afraid I don't believe many on the liberal side believe in limited or democratic socialism. Sooner or later I think it all turns into the USSR or Greece-too many taking, not enough producing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-85915670928262098412012-09-30T04:46:43.849-05:002012-09-30T04:46:43.849-05:00In light of our financial meltdown, I have become ...In light of our financial meltdown, I have become very intrigued by a social credit form of economic redistribution as proposed by Douglas wherein the usurious instruments of our banking system would be significantly altered and the credit would no longer be privatized in the banks but paid out as a whole to the population as a measure of overall productivity. It is a fasinating study of new enterperneruial capitalism.muscularshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331866552322738018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-404429883959071442012-09-28T20:46:11.713-05:002012-09-28T20:46:11.713-05:00Have you read, THREE FAMINES By Thomas Keneally. ...Have you read, THREE FAMINES By Thomas Keneally. It is a very interesting read and fits well with what you said Tobias.<br /><br />Check out the NY Times Book Review.<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/books/review/three-famines-by-thomas-keneally-book-review.htmlRev. Kurt Huberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11497143533527057579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-89646976318729097952012-09-27T08:13:37.597-05:002012-09-27T08:13:37.597-05:00Thanks, Erika. Charity of that sort is morally dan...Thanks, Erika. Charity of that sort is morally dangerous for both giver and receiver, and goes further to maintaining a "culture of dependency" than a sound social service regime under democratic control. Part of the problem is the level of false judgment made -- that the poor are such because of some failing or even sin on their part. Much poverty is circumstantial and inherited -- just like wealth!<br /><br />Much of my attitude, I confess, comes via my mother's Boston Irish heritage. The N.E. democratic party and philosophy was largely formed by the experience of the Potato Famine, where the English government did little or nothing to alleviate the disaster, even while foodstuffs were sitting in the docks for export. That negative experience formed an outlook. Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-34843892750046384622012-09-27T04:35:02.420-05:002012-09-27T04:35:02.420-05:00I think there is another danger in relying on priv...I think there is another danger in relying on private charity because it is inherently based on the assumption that those receiving it do not have a right to what we're giving them but that we are being kind and generous in helping them.<br /><br />It creates and sustains a view of the others as unequal to me and of me as the superior, more powerful person who can bestow gifts at will.<br /><br />The idea of a guaranteed safety net for all accepts that everyone is equal, that there is an absolute human right to a minimum standard of living and that society as a whole is responsible for ensuring that it is met.<br /><br />It leaves us with less of a personal glow but I think with a more realistic assessment of our respective status in society.Erika Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812376497361267014noreply@blogger.com