May 25, 2008

Quatrain for 05.25.08

Dead horses, beaten, do not move, or don’t move very well;
unless, that is, they’re hammered fast upon a carousel;
but that’s a race where no one wins, as far as I can see,
in carnival or fairground — or even TEC.

Tobias Haller BSG


Fran Wingate O'Gorman said...

Wow, the image you created was amazing.. actually maybe we should be discussing things where our words and points could actually change minds and hearts.. is that possible? I don't know.. I'm so new to all this I didn't even realize there was so much controversy in the first place here - you had no controversy where I came from- you either quietly had your views or left (I did the latter) .. still I remain hopeful that TEC has a better shot at getting it right than anywhere else.

Tobias Stanislas Haller BSG said...

I suppose I ought to have given a bit of background on this. Over in the House of Bishops/Deputies Listserv, the particular carousel concerns the depositions of Schofield and Cox, and whether they were "correct." Nothing new has been advanced on this matter, just the same arguments again and again, on both sides. It really gets very wearisome, and it does nothing to alter the situation, about which the only thing it seems all agree is that it is unsatisfactory.

Other issues, can gain from discussion, no doubt about it -- especially when a new or fresh bit of information comes forward, or a novel argument to be tested.

So I'm not against discussion and debate -- I just like to think it might go somewhere! That is why I think TEC is the place to be -- except when we do from time to time get stuck on a merry-go-round...

Fran Wingate O'Gorman said...

Oh I see.. that whole thing of ultra conservative bishops pulling out which I was vaguely aware of only from little pieces in the newspaper - while awful and upsetting - does that represent a large sector or only a tiny fringe? The impression I got from my pastor (Fr. Carl) was that those 2 and their followers represented the viewpoint of only a tiny percentage of Episcopalians. There remains a wide range of opinion but nothing that extreme in the conservative area for the majority.. I think this all was happening before I myself had become Episcopalian so I really wasn't following it that closely... but I thought the vast majority in the church believe in being more inclusive.. which while it hasn't happened completley yet, probably would.. am I accurate in this assessment?

Tobias Stanislas Haller BSG said...

Well, Fran, there's a good bit of debate about the extent of the disagreement. I think the proof is in the pudding. Those who feel so strongly about (against) TEC that they want to separate from it do represent a very small minority; I would guess between three and five percent -- and that may be a "high" estimate. I'd say a larger portion of TEC leadership and membership aren't happy with the progrressive view, but aren't going to leave TEC over it -- maybe as high as 25%. But I think it is clear from the votes of the House of Bishops and Deputies that a good 2/3 of the leadership is either progressive or willing to go with the progressive changes -- otherwise Gene Robinson would not have been approved. The "density" of opposition varies from diocese to diocese -- but even in places like Ft Worth, San Joaquin and Pittsburgh there is opposition to separatist moves.

WSJM said...

A wonderful quatrain, Tobias! Right on target!

I've been following the interminable discussion in the House of Bishops/Deputies list as a kibitzer, and I agree it is quite wearisome. My comment is the response of Ferris Bueller, at the very end of the movie (after the final screen credits):

"You still here? It's over! Go home! Go!"

June Butler said...

Tobias, I once subscribed to HofB/D Listserv, but I stopped, because so much was pouring in to my mailbox, and not all of it was superior commentary.

So they're still beating the depositions dead horse, are they? Too tedious for words, but I suppose it good that they have an outlet.

I like the poem. It resonates more knowing the context.

Country Parson said...

I'm with Grandmere Mimi and got off the Bishops/Deputies Listserve several years ago because it was, even then, the same few voices engaged in interminable motor-mouthing over the same arguments with the same words day after day. Why am I suddenly feeling the curmudgeon in me rising to the surface? Perhaps it's the memory of it all.

Tobias Stanislas Haller BSG said...

I continue to read the HoBD for the very rare nugget of information or wisdom it provides. But the signal/noise ratio is very low over the last few years.